Australia cracks down on car hoons

"Jonathon Klein" (jonathon-klein) 12/20/2013 at 08:27 • Filed to: hoon, hooning, Australia, police, monkeys, pigs

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"I'm sorry sir your air intake might hurt someone if you hit them with your car..." WTF?

http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?i…

Meanwhile they are driving V8 Commodores as their police cars.

(It wouldn't let me embed the vid sorry)

getchapopcorn > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 08:33

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They're tired of all them hoons thinking they're so deadly.

TheOnelectronic > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 08:44

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I mean... it could. The hood is one of the primary impact zones for a struck pedestrian.

But it's still just an excuse.

Jonathon Klein > TheOnelectronic 12/20/2013 at 08:53

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It could but don't you think that the cars bumper hitting you would be worse, let's put pillows on all bumpers!

Jonathon Klein > TheOnelectronic 12/20/2013 at 08:54

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So is a bumper though, lets put pillows on all cars!

Party-vi > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 08:57

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*ahem*

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 08:57

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No, not at all. Those out-of-bonnet stacks are really lethal in accidents, far more than the knee/thigh-height bumpers. Generally pedestrian fatalities/injuries would only be broken legs (at worst) if it wasn't for the secondary strikes on the bonnet, windscreen, (and ground, to be fair) often causing head injury.

getchapopcorn > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 09:01

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It's like what Clarkson always says

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 09:03

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Not sure if the news programme was being fair, but pretty much everything they showed was the kind of thing that damn well ought to be ticketed and taken off the road. 117 dB?! That's 16 times louder than a typical car driving down the road. It's louder than a pneumatic riveter.

The driver of that one's just plain anti-social. He either needs treatment for some mental illness that makes him totally lacking in empathy, or jail-time for being an arsehole without a care in the world for others. And he was one of the least stupid, most reasonable ones.

Jonathon Klein > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 09:14

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My point was more, your still getting hit by a car, no matter what you really hit, it's not going to be fun.

Jonathon Klein > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 09:16

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Take a listen to any muscle car in the states, I guarantee they are all that loud. When I put the exhaust on my car, I did a decibel test just to see and it was right around 92, that's loud, but there are way louder cars than mine running around, what's the decibel for a Ferrari or Lamborghini flooring it?

Cherry_man1 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 09:27

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No wonder ford and GM are pullin out of stralia

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 09:29

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Yes, and your point was wrong. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but that's just the way it is: it makes a real difference what you're hit by. Hit something like that intake and it'll do a hell of a lot more damage than just glancing off a flat bonnet.

When a car hits someone, in almost all cases the person is first knocked up in the air by contact with their legs - and essentially unscathed, with broken legs at worst, at this point - before they're then smashed out of the air by a secondary impact with the bonnet or windscreen. (Yes, it's a lot like a tennis serve.) Avoiding or minimising the secondary impacts makes an enormous difference to survivability

MonkeePuzzle > Party-vi 12/20/2013 at 09:30

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even a .com.au

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 09:37

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"Take a listen to any muscle car in the states, I guarantee they are all that loud."

No. They're just not. That's at the limits of human hearing, and will cause permanent hearing damage within minutes. We're talking about a car louder than a jet taking off, louder than F1 cars by a significant margin.

Bear in mind that dB is a logarithmic scale. 100 dB is ten times louder than 90dB. This is 120dB we're talking about, so a thousand times louder than what you're thinking of. (By the way, I must have been asleep earlier when I said 16 times - that's 2^4, and of course I meant 10^4.)

"what's the decibel for a Ferrari or Lamborghini flooring it?"

Typically under 90dB or so. A Ferrari F40, at full-chat, is only hitting about 100dB in the cabin . (No cabin soundproofing, it's the loudest place to measure.)

For someone to be driving around with a car making nearly a hundred times more noise than being inside an F40 is unquestionably what nanny would have called Just Not On.

Jonathon Klein > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 09:48

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But that depends on a multitude of variables, the biggest being speed. According to the Transport Research Laboratory in the UK, pedestrians getting hit by cars under 20mph have only a 20% chance of being seriously injured, above 35mph most are fatal or incapacitating. Yes, things sticking out of the bonnet can be a danger, but the fact that most are fatal at 35mph is the real issue. According to Autoblog, and the people that make the TomTom the average speed of Motorists is 46mph, well over the 35mph that could cause a fatal hit. At that point everything else becomes just an extra variable in the way you will probably die.

Getting hit under 20mph usually means that the driver attempted to stop the car, which means they are applying the brakes hard, diving the nose of the car towards the pavement pushing the pedestrian onto the bonnet of the car where injury can occur if something is sticking out of the bonnet. However the same injury could occur if the car has hoodscoops, which if they are stock aren't illegal in Australia, but aftermarket ones are, but how is there a difference between the two? Both can do more injury than just a flat bonnet! And if the car is going faster than 35mph then you pretty much have a greater chance of death no matter what is on the bonnet.

Jonathon Klein > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 09:52

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I actually didn't know that about the Decibel scale being Logarithmic, interesting. So I am pretty much running straight pipes out of my car, cats are still intact, is the guy in the video just running straight pipes?

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 09:53

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Whataboutery is a classic logical fallacy. Speed is not things sticking out of the bonnet, and is not related to it in any way. You're just bringing up an irrelevancy to try and pretend that something you like isn't a risk factor. Despite that, it plainly is a huge risk factor.

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 09:55

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I have no idea what the guy in the video is running, but I guess it must be pretty much straight through from the cylinders to the outside, and must be a pretty loud engine too.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 10:05

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Well it makes sense when you think about it, if a jet engine is 130 dB at full tilt, but a lawn tractor can still get 90 dB, I could be wrong but I think a jet engine is more than 30% louder than a lawnmower.....Just saying, I think a logarithmic scale is the more accurate model for dB than a straight scale.

Jonathon Klein > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 10:31

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No actually I could care less about things sticking out of the hood, my own personal taste is more sleeper than showboater. But I think that when getting hit by a car, everything one the car is a risk factor, hitting the windshield is plainly a risk factor even though they are now made to deform rather than just shatter. But the fact that they are ticketing people for this is frankly ridiculous. How about the people that drive way to slow and cause accidents? Or the people eating in their cars, or the countless other things that distract drivers? How about actually training people how to really pay attention and drive their cars? There are many things that can be done for safety that aren't, if people really wanted to be safe in cars, they would have full cages, and 5pt harnesses with a helmet and hans! Or how about just putting in sport seats with bolstering that keeps you more firmly in the seat when in an accident? There are many things that can be done. With this I was just commenting on the obviousness that this is really for the cash, 750Au dollars is a whole heck of a lot for a noise violation, or having your car towed and stored is also BS. Yeah I can see putting mufflers on it to make it less obnoxious but come on towing your car because of it is excessive, or the fact that you have a Muscle car with stacks on it? Those cars in general didn't have great or even that much mandatory safety equipment when they were new!

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 11:33

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Thing is, we don't know how much warning people had, how much they'd already been told to clean up their act, that kind of thing.

Is it the worst crime ever? Clearly not. Should police ignore it completely? Also clearly not. Best way to deal with it? Probably to do just what they did and pull a few cars with obvious infringements in for an all-over check to make an example of them.

'Obviously just for cash'? I don't see it myself. The guy with the intake was about the least bad offender, and he was the same one with the ridiculously loud car. The woman driving around with black paint on her windows instead of a tint clearly was in an unsafe vehicle, as were the others.

Jonathon Klein > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 11:40

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Your probably right, most of those cars were unsafe, but the story made it sound like all modified cars were subject to this which makes it feel like they were just out for the money. Like the guy with the butterfly valves, what harm is that doing, they made it sound like he put them in to strictly fool the cops, it could also be for track days where you can open up the valves and gain some needed flow.

davedave1111 > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 11:51

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"Like the guy with the butterfly valves, what harm is that doing, they made it sound like he put them in to strictly fool the cops, it could also be for track days where you can open up the valves and gain some needed flow."

But honestly, which do you think it was? :)

Jonathon Klein > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 12:09

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For me it would be to stop the drone of loud exhausts at around 2500rpm which mine does and its annoying but most likely for him probably cops.

Party-vi > MonkeePuzzle 12/20/2013 at 12:14

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I know hahaha

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 13:49

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I changed the exhaust setup on one of my cars with the express intent to quiet it down......it did. The neighbors still bitch now and again though.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 14:06

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Read the following article. It will show numerous mufflers compared that routinely run over 110dB......Basiacally it was take a car and throw all sorts of different exaust setups on it and run it on the dyno.....

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/m…

Jonathon Klein > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 12/20/2013 at 14:31

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What do you have?

davedave1111 > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 12/20/2013 at 14:53

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. Clearly, all of those (which are that loud) would be entirely unacceptable for road use, to the extent that it's illegal to run them on the road in many jurisdictions, and they will even get you chucked off a lot of racetracks for being too loud.

But even out of that list, around half of them are half as loud as the Aussie one, and only a couple are noticeably louder. Clearly, we're looking at just about the loudest exhaust system it's possible to get anywhere, and I don't know about you, but I think it's entirely reasonable to insist people run something a lot quieter on the road.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Jonathon Klein 12/20/2013 at 15:03

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2 toys. The one I quieted down is an 87 Cougar with a 5.0. Twisted Wedge heads and intake with an Ed Curtis custom grind camshaft and headers

It had what was called a set of "turbo pack" mufflers on it. I have no idea who made them, but they were shaped like a glass pack without packing. My guess is they were either THIS or something very similar. They were installed by a guy who did custom fab work who said if I didn't like 'em he'd replace them free of charge. They were GLORIOUS. I since replaced them with with Borla XR-1's. I like these very much as well. More of a big-block sound.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 15:10

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I run one of those very mufflers tested and know PLENTY of persons who run the others without issue.

Note the difference between the WOT and cruising @ 2000 RPM dB... Quite large.

What was my point?

"Take a listen to any muscle car in the states, I guarantee they are all that loud."

No. They're just not.

I live in the U.S.

Yes. They are.

davedave1111 > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 12/20/2013 at 15:14

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Well, your evidence is that only the very loudest are that loud. Not all, or even any large proportion.

Jonathon Klein > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 12/20/2013 at 15:19

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Nice, my '13 Toyobaru has a Nameless track pipe, down pipe and getting the headers once they put them out, and their intake, I am slowly turning it into a race car, I actually just started the process of getting a cage for it. Then it will in summer a drift car, in winter and fall rally car. It is loud but not super loud.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 15:48

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There are louder....

All? Of course not. That's an absolute. Any large portion? I speak from experience. YES.

Admittedly there IS a time and place for it. I'm not taking the wife and kids to dinner at an upscale restaurant in my loudmobiles. It's a pain squeezing the kids in back of 2 door cars ;)

davedave1111 > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 12/20/2013 at 15:54

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"There are louder...."

Not a lot louder. The dB scale for sound maxes out at 120 dB.

"All? Of course not. That's an absolute. Any large portion? I speak from experience. YES."

I wasn't being that literal, didn't mean absolutely all :)

But are you seriously suggesting that the vast majority of muscle cars run anything other than the stock setup? I'm quite willing to believe that you and lots of your friends/acquaintances do, but that's hardly representative.

"Admittedly there IS a time and place for it."

Yeah. I could blather a bit, but basically it's a case of Oppo's First Rule: don't be a dick. Going back to the original point, the guy having his car checked over was undoubtedly being a dick.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 16:05

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"But are you seriously suggesting that the vast majority of muscle cars run anything other than the stock setup"

Basically there are 2 camps: Showroom stock and Everyone else. In the everyone else crowd there are a few guys that will modify only with period correct factory parts i.e. swapping the mufflers for the optional "chambered exhaust" on a 1969 Camaro.

Most people in the Everyone else category are not the original owners and I'd venture to say a great deal of those older cars — especially the late '60's - early 70's cars started life with a totally different drivetrain altogether than what they now possess.

Not to mention, glasspacks can be had CHEAP.

davedave1111 > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 12/20/2013 at 16:24

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What's the proportion of older muscle cars to new (less than about 10yo)? I was thinking of the endless V6 Mustangs and so-on being driven as DDs, not the enthusiasts' cars.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > davedave1111 12/20/2013 at 20:07

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Maybe that's where we're differing...... I was on about the older cars....

Funny thing is I have a 2005 Mustang GT that's heavily modified...... When someone says "Muscle Car" my car doesn't really come to mind...... My Cougar which is approaching 30 years old with it's pushrod V8 does....